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Post by microbet on Jun 16, 2019 17:34:44 GMT
"zan nen proposed an out-of-the-box setup and then doing absolutely nothing for 6 months"
This isn't really what I'm thinking, but it's not absurd to me. People will make do with what's there to a really large degree. None of these features, the software we choose, or the design are critical features at all imo. As long as people can figure out where to post their takes on Trump and enough people move to the site at the same time it won't much matter.
Now there's got to be some place in between your take and zan nen's where people can meet.
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Post by lapka on Jun 16, 2019 17:44:46 GMT
It makes me feel a lot better, that I am not the only one frustrated.  Re: human nature. I can absolutely honest say what made me threw the towel. With tech I understand that I am worlds behind zak and micro and LP. So I did a little bit just for me (and I learned a ton of stuff that I wanted to learn for last year, but somehow never found enough motivation), but my contribution on the background of how productive they are just doesn't matter. With a lot of stuff that they just know, I need to be figuring it out from the beginning. With government it is a lot more complicated emotionally. It started by being frustrated out of my mind by zan. But OK, I am a grown-up girl, I tried to take the coop thing in my hands. At some point I was sitting there and thinking: "Do I really have to decide on the bylaws on my own? It is laughable. I am non-USA resident. I mean if it is ever gonna be incorporated, then probably in USA. I am non-native English speaker. I can put together a bunch of stuff from google, but I am as far from any lawyering as you can imagine. And I mean even just filing all the papers requires min of 3 RL people for a coop. And it is probably better if they all are USA citizens. So I just can't do it on my own." And then came from a couple of directions that I am bagging people out. And my central emotion is immediately: "Why the heck am I doing that? I don't believe in the financial success of this project, I am basically not interested in politics, and now I get on top negative social feed-back. Naaah... I need to stop doing that". Basically I don't have any good answer to "Why should I contribute?". |
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Post by microbet on Jun 16, 2019 17:48:15 GMT
"I agree with this completely. I was going with that language because that seemed to be how cuse saw things. " (re: a Managed Discourse Hosting company) Don't you see the potential here? We could do that for other people and charge real money. And if we do that we need people who aren't just going to do dev work as part of the team. Everything we do for Unstuck is going to be at least similar to something that someone else somewhere is going to want. It's not even that managed hosting is a great business to go into, but you never know where things will go and how things can be re-used. So, imo, even if someone isn't ready to be a Discourse developer right now, maybe they have other interests and talents that will go somewhere else. www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2012/04/27/a-glimpse-at-a-workplace-of-the-future-valve/#5d8664f57557kotaku.com/game-studio-with-no-bosses-pays-everyone-the-same-1827872972I think/hope we can say "who will work 5 hours per week" find out who and then do with that whatever we can. If you feel like you need to work 10hr/week on that and no one else is willing to make that commitment, maybe just settle for what you can do in 5 hrs per week or say "I'm doing 10 weeks of work this week - don't bother me for a while" (I'd be fine with that). |
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zan nen
Full Member
MissileDog/Shame Trolly !!!1!
Posts: 147
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Post by zan nen on Jun 16, 2019 18:52:47 GMT
... zan nen proposed an out-of-the-box setup and then doing absolutely nothing for 6 months... I did nothing like this. What I have been proposing is that we (a) point the URL here ASAP, and (b) we move to our new website, with generic Discourse forum software, ASAP. To be honest, I'm at a loss to understand why we haven't accomplished these two fundamental goals already. The six-month thingee was just a suggested time frame for mundane budgetary considerations... nothing more an nothing less. Three months, two years, IDK, whatever works considering the amount of collectible pledges we have... and whatever keeps us from being paralyzed on a month-to-month basis because "ZOMG we got a hosting bill due in a few days". To repeat, I never proposed "doing nothing for 6 months", or any other time period. I'm proposing the exact opposite: let's get things moving ASAP for two reasons... one, there is absolutely no reason not to... and two, by getting off of "dead center", I'm hoping that the moral, and the amount of effort, will be significantly increased. |
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Post by zikzak on Jun 16, 2019 18:56:30 GMT
Bascially no one but you even had the opportunity to do any dev work on your Discourse site. Either people needed root on your machine or they had to spin a competing Discourse server and work totally uncoordinated from you. No surprise that no one but you did any dev work on Discourse (though Lapka and I did both do a Discourse installation, but there wasn't really any reason to pursue that further). Why would anybody need root? 99% of everything I did was in the web application. I gave admin access to anybody who asked, and a bunch of people who didn't. There are literally hundreds of settings in the client that I asked for help configuring and still would like somebody else to look over, or at least have an opinion about. Since all staff actions are logged, I know exactly how much interest there was in exploring any of those settings. It wasn't much.
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Post by microbet on Jun 16, 2019 19:33:47 GMT
Bascially no one but you even had the opportunity to do any dev work on your Discourse site. Either people needed root on your machine or they had to spin a competing Discourse server and work totally uncoordinated from you. No surprise that no one but you did any dev work on Discourse (though Lapka and I did both do a Discourse installation, but there wasn't really any reason to pursue that further). Why would anybody need root? 99% of everything I did was in the web application. I gave admin access to anybody who asked, and a bunch of people who didn't. There are literally hundreds of settings in the client that I asked for help configuring and still would like somebody else to look over, or at least have an opinion about. Since all staff actions are logged, I know exactly how much interest there was in exploring any of those settings. It wasn't much.
Honestly I'm almost completely indifferent to the design or even admin stuff that is controlled by the admin settings. If someone said they want it red instead of blue, or navigation on the right instead of left, I'm happy to try to make that happen, but otherwise I'm good. Anything I'm pro-actively interested in doing is in the source code. I think generally most people just had no opinion one way or another (though I did say I liked the blue background I guess). I think people need concrete tasks which they can perform. Like setting up github - Loden had that task and did it. If you were like: micro, could you create a subforum with whatever threads, I certainly would have done it - or anything else along those lines. I just couldn't think of anything useful to do, other than post on your forum to get used to it and so I did that for a while. Like on your roadmap...install and configure SSL on this server would be something I'd be interested in doing. "Write a proposal for how we are going to implement SSL" - no thanks. |
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Post by microbet on Jun 16, 2019 19:43:56 GMT
A note on anarchy, anarcho-syndicalism, direct democracy, worker co-ops
I think people are confusing taking action with taking authority and making requests with giving orders. The problem with orders in a vertical power structure is not that the words said, it's the threat implied. Every request, no matter how nicely put, is "do this or else". In a cooperative every order, no matter how harshly put, is "please, can you help me out with this?"*
Something here is going to succeed because with all the information being gathered in all these posts it's going to become apparently what could possibly work that is closest to our intended spirit of cooperation, community and democracy and someone is going to ask the people willing to agree to something to make the agreement and they are going to say yes. That is going to happen.
*side note. When I had employees I would often be partly busy doing something else while also installing solar or they would have started before me and knew what was going on in that task better than I did and I just asked them to order me around. That was the most efficient thing to do if they had the lead on something. "Orders" never felt at all like what they feel like if your boss who can fire you is telling you what to do.
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Post by microbet on Jun 16, 2019 19:48:31 GMT
... zan nen proposed an out-of-the-box setup and then doing absolutely nothing for 6 months... I did nothing like this. What I have been proposing is that we (a) point the URL here ASAP, and (b) we move to our new website, with generic Discourse forum software, ASAP. To be honest, I'm at a loss to understand why we haven't accomplished these two fundamental goals already. The six-month thingee was just a suggested time frame for mundane budgetary considerations... nothing more an nothing less. Three months, two years, IDK, whatever works considering the amount of collectible pledges we have... and whatever keeps us from being paralyzed on a month-to-month basis because "ZOMG we got a hosting bill due in a few days". To repeat, I never proposed "doing nothing for 6 months", or any other time period. I'm proposing the exact opposite: let's get things moving ASAP for two reasons... one, there is absolutely no reason not to... and two, by getting off of "dead center", I'm hoping that the moral, and the amount of effort, will be significantly increased. I think it's pretty clear from the threads on opening admin and on moving the domain that this can happen at any time. Anyone with the admin password can get the ball rolling here and I certainly won't object. I hope it's not me that ends up doing it. But, I put those threads out there. I recruited input. I said I'd wait until some time early next week to act on it. Barring new objections or someone else beating me to it, some time early next week I'll do what is needed on the proboards site, including pay for it (maybe I'll ask Hobbes to pay for half or you and hobbes and me to go in three ways or something), and I'll reach out to simplicitus (again, unless someone beats me to it). |
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Post by gregorio on Jun 16, 2019 20:53:27 GMT
I don't know if something like This plugin, which fetches content and displays headline and description, is useful. From the live demo, if you click the "+" it displays the entire article, I assume without violating copyright. Not sure if you can manually control which articles to display or if it has to read it from a feed.
Does that even work with outside sources like a WaPo article? It's possible to create an RSS feed that contains only the single article I want to appear in the aggregator. For example, if I take feeds.washingtonpost.com/rss/politics, flter by "title contains: Rep. Ocasio-Cortez says Biden still has work to do on changing his behavior toward women" I get this new feed siftrss.com/f/mNZ8NzwynY that only contains the article I want to display. So in that sense, it is possible to have it work with a single WaPo article. |
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Post by lapka on Jun 17, 2019 7:08:34 GMT
Bascially no one but you even had the opportunity to do any dev work on your Discourse site. Either people needed root on your machine or they had to spin a competing Discourse server and work totally uncoordinated from you. No surprise that no one but you did any dev work on Discourse (though Lapka and I did both do a Discourse installation, but there wasn't really any reason to pursue that further). Why would anybody need root? 99% of everything I did was in the web application. I gave admin access to anybody who asked, and a bunch of people who didn't. There are literally hundreds of settings in the client that I asked for help configuring and still would like somebody else to look over, or at least have an opinion about. Since all staff actions are logged, I know exactly how much interest there was in exploring any of those settings. It wasn't much.
I can say only for me, why I didn't comment on that. In my head the priority number one was and is clear ownership structure. Anything else just doesn't really matter until the ownership thing is really set. And basically everything else, including moderation, follows from that.
I will try to do better. That means I am going to invest this week min 10 hours to somehow at least understand the stuff with postgres. (please don't have high expectation. I am dumb in all that.) And I mean.... Somehow, on some level I want to do something. I am doing it for me, to become a little less dumb.  |
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Same feeling.