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Post by clovis8 on May 12, 2019 15:08:23 GMT
I think we need to decide soon on the value of keeping previous 22 mods as mods here. It seems to be causing some members significant concern.
If current mods to run no problem. I just think an actual election will address members concerns.
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Post by marty on May 12, 2019 15:48:37 GMT
Been banned on other site probably more than everyone else on here combined lol, by both jman and wookie included.
Have no issue whatsoever with both of them being mods here, they seem very fair to me.
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Post by jbro on May 12, 2019 16:12:37 GMT
I think it was a good decision to keep the current mods at least to get this site started. I don't think we need an emergency action here, we can let things play out as they were imo.
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Post by clovis8 on May 12, 2019 16:24:01 GMT
Don’t you think electing mods will alleviate the concerns of some members? We need to do it at some point anyway.
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Post by zikzak on May 12, 2019 16:46:40 GMT
Eventually, yes. The current kerfuffle will settle by the end of the day imo. Growing pains.
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Post by whosnext on May 12, 2019 17:00:43 GMT
Agreed. My view since day one, admittedly an extreme view, is that no mod actions should be taken here by the current set of "ad hoc" mods. And, to repeat for the umpteenth time, this is not a knock on them collectively or individually. In our new home, ostensibly community-governed, they are mods in name only until this community selects a new set of mods (which could well be the exact same set of the current mods).
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Post by microbet on May 12, 2019 17:48:44 GMT
Modding should be more transparent and mods should rotate. Elections are pretty annoying and if we can substitute that with sign-up and rotation it would save a lot of hassle. Mods should be recallable and voting happen when necessary, but if someone is just a mod for a month or so I think there wouldn't be much of that drama.
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Post by pablohoney on May 12, 2019 18:09:03 GMT
I don't think elections are a good thing when it comes to who moderates a site. It's just a popularity contest and not who will make a good mod at that point.
I think there could be head mods (wookie in this instance) that don't need to rotate and lesser mods who should rotate. I suggested that to Mat once actually lol.
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Post by whosnext on May 12, 2019 18:16:23 GMT
I agree. As people know, one of the items that the (slow-moving) governance committee has on its agenda is to develop a process by which mods are determined. Maybe direct voting for mods will be recommended but there are certainly other methods such as 100% volunteers, perhaps with one or more "super-mods" to provide continuity and guidance.
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Post by commonWealth (admin) on May 12, 2019 18:18:58 GMT
I think we should have people volunteer (or get nominated and accept) and then get confirmed, rather than like head to head elections or anything like that. While there have been modding decisions/suggestions that I have disagreed with here, my personal vote would be to confirm each of the current mods and I would also vote to confirm any others who wanted to volunteer or who were nominated and accepted. The current system of all of the mods chiming in before an action is very suboptimal IMO, so the sooner the community officially empowers mods the better - at that point I think the mods should be able to take immediate action based on our rules (so we need some basic ones) and their own judgment.
One thing I want to point out is that I've seen a few people see a mod action, get very upset and either delete their account (I'm assuming that's what happened with gregorio) or threaten to leave the community. I hope everyone realizes that in our current somewhat leaderless power structure and with just a few of us as mods/admin with no compensation, it could very easily be a couple days before anything is noticed... So to react in haste is a pretty extreme reaction on our current site with our current power structure.
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Post by clovis8 on May 12, 2019 18:23:52 GMT
All good points. Perhaps we get at least one mod who was not a 22 mod?
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Post by lapka on May 12, 2019 18:35:59 GMT
I think we should have people volunteer (or get nominated and accept) and then get confirmed, rather than like head to head elections or anything like that. While there have been modding decisions/suggestions that I have disagreed with here, my personal vote would be to confirm each of the current mods and I would also vote to confirm any others who wanted to volunteer or who were nominated and accepted. The current system of all of the mods chiming in before an action is very suboptimal IMO, so the sooner the community officially empowers mods the better - at that point I think the mods should be able to take immediate action based on our rules (so we need some basic ones) and their own judgment. One thing I want to point out is that I've seen a few people see a mod action, get very upset and either delete their account (I'm assuming that's what happened with gregorio) or threaten to leave the community. I hope everyone realizes that in our current somewhat leaderless power structure and with just a few of us as mods/admin with no compensation, it could very easily be a couple days before anything is noticed... So to react in haste is a pretty extreme reaction on our current site with our current power structure. Things are emotional. And greg said, that he will come back in few days. For now everyone is calming down. And it is not reaction in haste but very very very normal and understandable reaction.
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Post by kre8tive on May 12, 2019 18:51:11 GMT
First of all figure out how many mods do we need in our current state?
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Post by lapka on May 12, 2019 19:00:15 GMT
We need an established legal ownership. I don't like how cuse speaks about greg, but one thing I totally get and understand, namely that he doesn't want to have a law suit attached to his name.
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Post by kerowo on May 12, 2019 20:52:23 GMT
I find it amusing that people think the mods are responsible for what happened today and if we had different mods or a different process things would have been different. I really doubt it. The moderation we have today is the process that has been hammered out by the community. While the people Cuse picked were not voted on, no one voiced strenuous objections to the choice or the process until today. Today is an example of the mod process working.
The current mod process, in it's entirety is this: Someone reports a post. To my knowledge, no recent actions have taken place without a post having been reported.
This opens a thread in the Admin section of the site that mods have access to. The report lists the post, the message sent when it was reported and gives a place for the mods to discuss it and vote on an action. Usually the vote is no action and nothing is done. When 3 mods have voted for the same action the action is carried out. This morning was an exception to this because I mistakenly interpreted the post to be of a nature that couldn't wait the day or so it would take for a vote to take place so I acted. There are always going to be posts that fall into this category and will be sorted out as we get actual rules. Oh, at the moment there are no actual written down rules.
Once the action is taken it is noted in the Mod Actions thread for comments. Based on the comments in that thread an action will be upheld or overturned, in this case it was overturned and the action was undone.
That's it. Without written rules to fall back on the mods are basing their decisions on experience and their interpretation of what has been talked about in the various threads on what we want this place to be. As we learn what the community wants we change our decisions to try and fit the community spirit with the recognition that we are imperfect vessels and our decisions are at the whim of the community.
What mods can't do is prevent people from reacting to our actions before the process has worked itself out.
Y'all are free to find new mods but I'm not sure what would have changed if other mods had been getting the post reports.
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Post by SenorKeeed on May 12, 2019 21:11:29 GMT
I nominate Clovis and microbet
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Post by lapka on May 12, 2019 21:20:48 GMT
micro is already working his butt off like no one else here.
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champ
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Post by champ on May 12, 2019 22:09:57 GMT
I think we should vote, but I also think the mods are fine (with the caveat that if they want to more heavily mod things they should step down).
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Post by microbet on May 12, 2019 22:58:12 GMT
I nominate Clovis and microbet Thank you for the nomination. I nominate SenorKeeed. I'll mod if it's my turn/responsibility and basically all the regs are at least asked to mod if they are willing, but not as a special position.
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Post by SenorKeeed on May 12, 2019 22:59:43 GMT
I nominate Clovis and microbet Thank you for the nomination. But, I will only mod as a responsibility shared and not as a privilege.
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Post by microbet on May 12, 2019 23:05:58 GMT
Nice. I don't think the situation is that dire at this point.
In the mean time, I edited my post...see your nomination.
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Post by clovis8 on May 12, 2019 23:08:18 GMT
I’m not interested in being a permanent mod but would help out if needed.
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Post by microbet on May 12, 2019 23:12:03 GMT
Well, I got back at you by orphaning your post!!!
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Post by microbet on May 12, 2019 23:12:27 GMT
Damn. I give up.
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Post by clovis8 on May 12, 2019 23:15:09 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 12:45:08 GMT
I nominate Clovis and microbet Thank you for the nomination. I nominate SenorKeeed. I'll mod if it's my turn/responsibility and basically all the regs are at least asked to mod if they are willing, but not as a special position. Thanks for the nomination 👍 I'm happy to help out if/when needed and I'll nominate Greg oreo 👊 I feel the same here, I'm happy to do it as a shared community effort as long as I have no individual power over anyone else 🍻
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Post by kerowo on May 13, 2019 14:32:45 GMT
That’s not how this works, that’s not how any of this works...
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Max Cut
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Post by Max Cut on May 13, 2019 14:46:16 GMT
I second all the nominations and nominate kerowo to be on the rotation list.
I also nominate that people are allowed to get mad, sad, disappointed, frustrated, exasperated, and exhausted, but not be allowed to rage quit or threaten to leave due to not getting their way. Each member of this forum currently has a lot of power to impact and change how things are done here, if they choose to pursue and use it with a little patience and perseverance.
Caveat: I am not on the gov cmte, so, like, that's just my opinion.
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Post by lapka on May 13, 2019 15:02:06 GMT
I second all the nominations and nominate kerowo to be on the rotation list. I also nominate that people are allowed to get mad, sad, disappointed, frustrated, exasperated, and exhausted, but not be allowed to rage quit or threaten to leave due to not getting their way. Each member of this forum currently has a lot of power to impact and change how things are done here, if they choose to pursue and use it with a little patience and perseverance.Caveat: I am not on the gov cmte, so, like, that's just my opinion. hehe..... any suggestions for a strat how to do it?
May be you should try to be on gov cmte.
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Max Cut
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Post by Max Cut on May 13, 2019 15:21:25 GMT
Yes, I should have put it as "uninformed opinion" in my caveat.
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